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	<title>Comments on: Can I Ask You a Question?</title>
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	<link>http://vvn.net/wp/2008/04/19/can-i-ask-you-a-question/</link>
	<description>Anthropology, CompuScriptology, Epistemology,FOSSology, Technology, Vosology, Webdesignology</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 11 Oct 2008 14:18:45 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Hugh Wessel</title>
		<link>http://vvn.net/wp/2008/04/19/can-i-ask-you-a-question/#comment-180</link>
		<dc:creator>Hugh Wessel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Apr 2008 02:40:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vvn.net/wp/?p=102#comment-180</guid>
		<description>It would be helpful, in my opinion, if we remember that science, philosophy, and faith issues are separate categories. When Richard Dawkins speculates about ET, he has left science, which deals in the material world, and enters the realm of philosophy, which, is of course fine; but, others are free to philosophize, too! On the other hand, when ID people say they are doing science, it would be better to describe their writing as philosophy at best, and, unfortunately, at times it heads directly into faith issues. Philosophy uses reasoning and logic: Philosophers try to construct coherent, intellectually satisfying constructs. Finally, there are faith issues, which deal with belief in the spiritual realm. 

People of faith are able to work as scientists. It is worth noting that 'belief' is not necessarily incompatible with either science or philosophy. Scientist's work gets peered reviewed; Philosophers publish in academic journals where their work is open to criticism: one can 'see' that there is more subjectivity in philosophy than science; finally, questions of faith are usually related to communities of believers, traditions and sacred texts, which are even more difficult to discuss because of the faith commitment of the believer.

There are obviously good and poor scientists and philosophers; on the other hand, people of faith may argue their position poorly, practice it inconsistently, or not all, and still subscribe to their faith!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It would be helpful, in my opinion, if we remember that science, philosophy, and faith issues are separate categories. When Richard Dawkins speculates about ET, he has left science, which deals in the material world, and enters the realm of philosophy, which, is of course fine; but, others are free to philosophize, too! On the other hand, when ID people say they are doing science, it would be better to describe their writing as philosophy at best, and, unfortunately, at times it heads directly into faith issues. Philosophy uses reasoning and logic: Philosophers try to construct coherent, intellectually satisfying constructs. Finally, there are faith issues, which deal with belief in the spiritual realm. </p>
<p>People of faith are able to work as scientists. It is worth noting that &#8216;belief&#8217; is not necessarily incompatible with either science or philosophy. Scientist&#8217;s work gets peered reviewed; Philosophers publish in academic journals where their work is open to criticism: one can &#8217;see&#8217; that there is more subjectivity in philosophy than science; finally, questions of faith are usually related to communities of believers, traditions and sacred texts, which are even more difficult to discuss because of the faith commitment of the believer.</p>
<p>There are obviously good and poor scientists and philosophers; on the other hand, people of faith may argue their position poorly, practice it inconsistently, or not all, and still subscribe to their faith!</p>
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		<title>By: patrick</title>
		<link>http://vvn.net/wp/2008/04/19/can-i-ask-you-a-question/#comment-173</link>
		<dc:creator>patrick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Apr 2008 08:32:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vvn.net/wp/?p=102#comment-173</guid>
		<description>just saw Expelled; the fact that Ben Stein isn't trying to win any popularity contests helps to validate his message... i gather that his goal is to promote free thought, especially more thinking about worldviews that drive American academia</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>just saw Expelled; the fact that Ben Stein isn&#8217;t trying to win any popularity contests helps to validate his message&#8230; i gather that his goal is to promote free thought, especially more thinking about worldviews that drive American academia</p>
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		<title>By: Bad</title>
		<link>http://vvn.net/wp/2008/04/19/can-i-ask-you-a-question/#comment-171</link>
		<dc:creator>Bad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Apr 2008 03:45:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vvn.net/wp/?p=102#comment-171</guid>
		<description>"The new movie - Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed - from Premise Media, starring Ben Stein, asks an interesting question about scientific inquiry (asking questions) in the modern era. Can scientists ask questions without fear of being censored, ridiculed, ostracized, told to shut-up, or expelled?"

It doesn't "ask a question:" it makes a full on accusation.  But to get there, it plays ever so fast and loose with the facts.  Take your WND article (not a good source to pick if accuracy is any concern).  It's listing work that's mostly not relevant to tenure at ISU, because it was done under the auspices of other people and labs.  The whole point of his time at ISU was to see whether he could make it on his own.  And the reality is that his publication numbers and quality plummeted, he brought in virtually no grant money at all (compared to an average of millions for others there), and graduated no grad students in several years.  WND is basically counting things that aren't relevant to the decision, and then not telling you the rest of the story.

Nor do the emails actually support the claims made.  They show that some reviewers thought ill of his ID work, but they do not show at all that this was the factor that decided anyone against him, just something they talked about.  And why would they?  Because it was Gonzalez who submitted his ID work to the committee for consideration in the first place!  

The question here is that if ID is just good science, then why are people demanding special protection for it based on religious discrimination?  Other scientific ideas don't get such protection.  If I submit a paper for review, and other scientists judge it to be lousy, am I supposed to get affirmative action just because I make a fuss about how the conclusions of the paper are connected to my religious beliefs?  Either ID is science, and thus up for criticism, or it isn't, in which case it's wholly illegitimate that people are trying to pass it off as science.  You can't have it both ways.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The new movie - Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed - from Premise Media, starring Ben Stein, asks an interesting question about scientific inquiry (asking questions) in the modern era. Can scientists ask questions without fear of being censored, ridiculed, ostracized, told to shut-up, or expelled?&#8221;</p>
<p>It doesn&#8217;t &#8220;ask a question:&#8221; it makes a full on accusation.  But to get there, it plays ever so fast and loose with the facts.  Take your WND article (not a good source to pick if accuracy is any concern).  It&#8217;s listing work that&#8217;s mostly not relevant to tenure at ISU, because it was done under the auspices of other people and labs.  The whole point of his time at ISU was to see whether he could make it on his own.  And the reality is that his publication numbers and quality plummeted, he brought in virtually no grant money at all (compared to an average of millions for others there), and graduated no grad students in several years.  WND is basically counting things that aren&#8217;t relevant to the decision, and then not telling you the rest of the story.</p>
<p>Nor do the emails actually support the claims made.  They show that some reviewers thought ill of his ID work, but they do not show at all that this was the factor that decided anyone against him, just something they talked about.  And why would they?  Because it was Gonzalez who submitted his ID work to the committee for consideration in the first place!  </p>
<p>The question here is that if ID is just good science, then why are people demanding special protection for it based on religious discrimination?  Other scientific ideas don&#8217;t get such protection.  If I submit a paper for review, and other scientists judge it to be lousy, am I supposed to get affirmative action just because I make a fuss about how the conclusions of the paper are connected to my religious beliefs?  Either ID is science, and thus up for criticism, or it isn&#8217;t, in which case it&#8217;s wholly illegitimate that people are trying to pass it off as science.  You can&#8217;t have it both ways.</p>
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